The Village
I had to cut today's discussion short because we needed to edit our letters, but many of you didn't get to finish arguing your points. Here are a few questions I'd still like to discuss via the blog (feel free to deviate and create your own questions if these don't do it for you):
One of the elders declares that "The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe." Does this hold true in The Village?
Did the village elders succeed in their original mission?
Does society create evil or control the evil that rests innately in individuals?
Do The Village and The Crucible essentially tell the same story?
Are the characters cowardly? Courageous?
Noah? Ivy? Lucius? Kevin the park ranger?
Discuss amongst yourselves.
One of the elders declares that "The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe." Does this hold true in The Village?
Did the village elders succeed in their original mission?
Does society create evil or control the evil that rests innately in individuals?
Do The Village and The Crucible essentially tell the same story?
Are the characters cowardly? Courageous?
Noah? Ivy? Lucius? Kevin the park ranger?
Discuss amongst yourselves.
posted by Kristin L | 5:21 PM
20 Comments:
I agree with Ryan that the elders had origanally wanted to create a secluded society. I also agree that they didn't really succeed becasue they still had problem within it; even though the problems were slightly different. One of the things they were trying to get away from was murder because I think it was one of the elder's brothers that was killed. They did succeed in taking their village away from some people who would do this, however they did not succeed in running away from death. Noah tried to murder Lucius and that shows that you can never escape murder or death of any kind.
I think the elders original mission was to create a place where hope could be found and nurtured. The whole reason they left the modern world was because "at on point we had all lost hope and felt like dying" , like Mr. Walker states. I think they did the best they could but I also think it is an impossible dream. You cannot escape the social issues no matter where you are. It does not matter how secluded you are or how innocent you are, people still make mistakes. "There are no perfect men in this world, only perfect intentions." Their plan did succeed with Ivy, she was determined and motivated by love that no matter how fearful or helpless she was she could overcome it because of her love for Lucius.
In a way, The Village did stick true to the quote "The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe." Like kristinc said, Ivy endured the journey through the woods, conquering the fears and doubts ingrained in her from living in the village, because her love for Lucius motivated her to find the medicine for him. Despite the efforts of the village elders, they could not maintain their deception any longer, because Ivy was so determined to save Lucius. Indeed, their world did "kneel in awe" before Ivy's love for Lucius. I think also that the elders' love for their children and the generations to come drove them to decide that it was better to risk destroying the illusion in their village than to have their children deal with the murder of Lucius.
Responding to the third question, I think that society creates evil but try's to control it and is unsuccessful. The Village was isolated from society so that no more murder and heart break would take place, but with Noah stabbing Lucius the elders’ realized that it is something you can't run away from. The elders tried to create a society with no evil but created evil instead with the monsters and giving Noah the chance to try and murer Lucius. Continuing on with my first point, I also think society tries to control evil because then they will not be responsible if something bad happens, even if they created it in the first place, because they can just say “ We tried to stop it but couldn’t.”
A question I had today but didn’t get an opportunity to ask: Id there any connection between Ivy making a deal with Noah at the beginning of the movie that if he won’t hit someone ever again he doesn’t have to go into the quiet room and Noah trying to kill Lucius later on?
The Village and The Crucible do essentially tell the same story because in both stories the leaders try to create a utopia but in the end all goes wrong.
In the Crucible, the people wanted to have a perfect religious society and because of their extreme way of doing things, it backfired on them.
In the Village, the people also want a perfect society just not from religion but from the violence of society itself. People become curious and, despite the elder’s best efforts, violence erupts.
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Although I like the questions Kakos posed, there is one I’d like to pose as well. At one point Ivy’s father states, “I hope I can always risk everything for the right cause.” I thought this quote was so moving and then it got me questioning its connections to "The Crucible". This quote specifically related to Mr. Proctor, in my view, as he risked everything to prove his rejection of the witch claims. Many villagers risked everything; their lives, families, and occasionally values, to prove their belief in a just and right cause. However, others were willing to also risk the lives of their allies to convict enemies. How interesting it is to see such a trend in society. Whether considered benevolent or cowardly, humans often risk everything for the values and beliefs they uphold.
In class we talked about the color red and how the aversion to it in the village was meant to discourage murder. I think brown also has important implications in this movie. When drawing blood with pencil and paper, the color brown is used in place of red. The village elders had no way of knowing this, so they did not make any special rituals concerning it. Their inability to forsee Noah's attempted murder of Lucius mirrors this. For this reason I think brown represents hidden danger in this movie. Noah's hair IS brown, but I would not count this as evidence to support this theory.
I disagree with everyone above me on the mission of the Village. I don't think they were trying to be secluded, I think that the original mission was to create a innocent society. The founders could only do so by removing it from all our modern day problems therefore creating seclusion as a side product of their original goal.
I think that they suceeded in their goal of creating the pure and innocent society because they only ever had 1 problem crop up.
I think that Kevin is a very courageous person because he knew that somebody was hurt and it would be wrong of him to not tell his boss, but he did what he thought he should do anyways. He went by his instincts and did it. Also, do you think that Ivy and Lucious will continue on with the tradition of their town?
Yes, this does hold true in The Village because the characters will do anything to help or protect the things they love. Ivy was willing to go through the woods with those they do not speak of, blind, for medicine for Lucius. I also believe that Noah loved Ivy so much that he went after her in the woods in order to bring her back and keep her safe. I don't think that the elders really succeeded in their original mission because their children still ended up getting hurt, and some killed. They protected them from technology, and many other wonderful things that they could have used. I don't think that society create evil, but it helps project it. People always have a little bit in them, and depending on where they are in society, it may be brought out. The Village and the Crucible tell parts of the same story. They both tell stories of manipulation and trust, but the settings and people are different. Some characters are cowardly, some are courageous, and some show qualities of both. Noah is cowardly, and he picks the easy path to getting what he wants. Ivy is extremely courageous to journey into a world she knows nothing about and to trust people she doesn't know. Lucius is brave because he did not know the truth about those they do no speak of and he was still willing to go get help. The park ranger was very caring, and I would say he was courageous to help Ivy while protecting her wishes and helping keep their secret safe.
I believe that the elders did succeed in their original mission, which was to completely isolate themselves from the rest of humanity. If you look at the movie, you will see the village was in no way associated with any outside source. Other than the elders, no one in the village had any idea of the outside world. Everything in the village was produced there, and they were in every way isolationists. Their goal was accomplished until the very end when ivy was allowed to leave.
I agree with aaronw, I also think that they were just trying to create a safe society, and the only way to do that was to isolate themselves, but I don't think they succeeded. Even just one problem does not make it perfect. They did a good job at trying, but didn't make it one-hundred percent safe from all worries of violence and other problems of modern day, which I believe was their goal.
Also, I agree with hannah s about Kevin, the park ranger. At first he didn't believe Ivy, but then once he knew that she was telling the truth, he did what he believed was right, even though he knew that if he got caught, he would get in trouble for stealing and letting her go back into the woods, because no one is allowed in there.
I have a few questions of my own to pose as well. Do you think that Ivy Walker's blindness makes her stronger, and how does it change the story? What kinds of things do you think she felt when she went to the real world and heard those different sounds?
This was a very interesting movie in and can be interpreted in many ways. I do think the elders succeeded in their mission because everything they ever wanted was available to them. It may not have been perfect but it was what satisfied themselves. It is a matter of opinion. I believe the tragedies these people suffered through are unimaginable and must have hurt terribly. These were life changing events and they were afraid, they created these monsters because of what they believed in and they wanted to save each other. Maybe people that have never suffered a great tragedy don't see it as this but they have a different perspective and they did what they wanted to do and that has keep their people safe even it was extreme.
Society cannot create or control the evil that is found in select individuals, as Noah demonstrates in this movie. The whole reason the elders created this society was to preserve innocence and create a place free of murder and crime. It does not work, though, because humans have too complex emotions and nature to be stifled by their environment. Jealousy, which is felt by Noah, is a strong emotion which is not hindered by their society in any way and ends up driving Noah, the most innocent of the innocents, to try to commit murder.
I agree with Brian K about the village being an attempt at "perfect society". Because the elders wanted to have a sort of utopian society, The Village reminded me of the book The Giver. In both, information was controlled by the elders in order to protect the town; however in THe Giver the information was controlled through education and science, instead of scaring people.
Also, i never really thought about Kevin the park ranger very much until Ms. Kakos presented that question. Now that i am thinking more about his character, I think that he represents the opposite side of the story. We keep focussing on how you can not avoid evil no matter how hard you try, but I think Kevin represents that there is also good in every place, even the "evil" modern world that the elders where trying to escape from.
Obviously, The Village and The Crucible are completely different. The Crucible had more to do with beliefs and supersitions and Arthur Miller wrote it based on Mcarthyism. The Village was a story based on today's everyday events.
I thought the meassage of The Village was very moving and relivant to today's world. The film's basic point was getting away from violence. All the elder's had someone taken away from them through violence.
The color red was debatable but I think it symbolized what the elders were trying to get away from. They were trying to escape from murder, rape, and violence in general. When someone is harmed blood is usually involved and the color of blood is red.
Ivy Walker was a very gripping character. Since she was blind, she saw things in a very different way. When people go blind the other four senses really kick in. It was interesting to see how she went about her daily life and didn't let her blindness affect her. She's positive and has an unusual wisdom beyond her years.
I agree with Brian K that the stories told by M. Night Shyamalan and Arthur Miller are essentially the same--when people are vulnerable, they attempt (erroneously) to rule by fear and manipulation "the invisible." I think that both criticize the claustrophobia of a society whose justice system seems to determine innocence and guilt by a system riddled with logical fallacies.
That's my two cents. Night.
I think that the village elders did succeed in their original plan. Assuming that their original plan was to end violence then in the big picture the succeeded. The community is very close and they all need each other to survive. Since all the elders moved to the village because they had been victims of violent crimes they most likely felt a safe sense of security after moving from the modern world. Noah's stabbing of Lucius probably brought back bad memories to the elders. Because of this their original plan was not a total success but in my opinion I would say that it was very close and for the most part they got what they wanted.
I think that the Crucible and The Village both share a major theme that some people will always question what they are told and some will beleive everything. In the Crucible, Proctor stood up for what he beleived even if it meant death. He would not go along with everyone else believing that there were witches in the town. In the Village, Lucius wanted to go through the woods and to the towns. He was curious and would risk his life to find the truth. Both stories show how far people will go to make the truth be known.
I think Christine brings up a great point about Kevin being the goodness in the world. I think that it is ironic how the villagers are trying to create that natural goodness that we first see when Ivy leaves the village. I think that to be a good person, you must be placed in a situation which makes you choose right or wrong. In the village, I don't think there were too many of those situations so the goodness in the people is not as blatant as in Kevin.
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